Ep. 79: Mindset Mastery: Unleashing Success Through Strategic Thinking with Cindra Kamphoff Ph.D.

Join us in this week’s episode as Dr. Cindra Kamphoff, renowned sports psychologist and founder of The Mentally Strong Institute, shares her expert insights on how mastering your mindset can dramatically improve your life and business success.

In this episode, we will discuss:

• – How thoughts influence feelings and actions.
• – Techniques to transition from negative to positive thinking.
• – The ideal balance of positive and negative thoughts for optimal performance.
• – How to define and achieve your purpose.
• – Managing emotions like confidence and anxiety.
• – The importance of focusing on the process over the outcome.
• – Discovering and achieving your flow state for peak performance.

Tune in now to learn how to harness the power of your mind for success in all areas of your life.

You can find Dr. Kamphoff’s work at  www.drcindra.com, www.beyondgrit.com, and www.freementalbreakthroughcall.com.

 

Read the transcript:

Garrett Salpeter (00:00.946)
Welcome back to the undercurrent podcast. Many of you are here because you are leaders within the health profession. You devote your time, your effort, and your energy to the people that you influence every day. You do this because you care so much about the impact you can have on so many people. Plus, as a leader, you know how important leadership and resilience skills are. That’s what this podcast is about. That’s why Dr. Cindra  Campoff is here today. She has specialized in this area for over 20 years.

She’s the founder of the Mentally Strong Institute, whose purpose is to help purpose -driven leaders like you, as well as athletes, get to their goals quicker, multiply their confidence, and increase their influence. This is an area that Cindra  has specialized in through the arena of professional sports. She has worked with many professional teams and athletes, including coaching for many years with the Minnesota Vikings, to help their players improve their mindsets, and of course, as a result of that, their ability to perform on the field. She’s also worked with…

the U S Olympic track and field team at the Olympics and many other athletes individually. Her bestselling book is called Beyond Grit. And much of what we’re going to talk about today comes from that book. I’ll also give you a little of my personal commentary. So if you, if you’re listening, you don’t see me holding up the book here, but if you’re watching, you do see the cover. And I read this book literally every single page. And to me, I it’s, it’s like the best of all worlds. I would call it almost encyclopedia like in the sense that it has.

every single effective psychological strategy that I’ve ever heard of and then more, many that I hadn’t heard of before. And yet at the same time, it also reads like a page turning novel. So I really loved the book. And I also will add one other bit of commentary that I met, Cindra , met Dr. Campoff at an event. We both spoke at a mastermind and it was an honor to share the stage with her because her talk was excellent. And ever since then, you know, a month or so ago, I’ve been super excited to have her on the podcast. So,CCindra , welcome.

Cindra Kamphoff (01:58.653)
Wow. I just got goosebumps as I was hearing you. So thank you so much for having me. I can’t wait to talk to your listeners about Beyond Grit and high performance. So thank you, Garrett, for having me. And I love what you said about it. It’s an encyclopedia. And what I wanted was this place where there would be a whole bunch of tools that people could use to add to their high performance toolkit. And I had some colleagues who said, don’t put all that in one book.

But I’m so happy I did. So thank you for saying that.

Garrett Salpeter (02:31.442)
Yeah, I am too. It’s something that I really feel confident that I can go back and use as a reference too. So I really, I can’t recommend it highly enough. I put it up there in my top few books on leadership and personal development for sure. And I definitely intend to go back and may even go through, we’ll talk about how the book’s broken down, but it’s, you know, there’s 10 main concepts and then there’s 52 chapters that spell out. So you can literally do.

Cindra Kamphoff (02:55.005)
Hehehe

Garrett Salpeter (03:01.202)
which I’m contemplating doing one chapter a week, one area of focus. So that’s something I may work into my own personal development plans here, but we can transition here. Can you share a little bit, Cindra , with your backstory, how you got into sports psychology, which is a very cool, unique, interesting field, and also along the way, sprinkling a little bit about what grit actually means. So we’re speaking the same language as well.

Cindra Kamphoff (03:28.797)
Yeah. Excellent. So my story really starts in my journey to sports psychology and performance psychology and earning my PhD. It started when I was in high school and you know, I would, I’d love to go to the mall and I’d always go to the bookstore and I’d go to the psychology section right away. It’s just something I always gravitated towards. When I was in high school, I was a cross country and track athlete and I ran the fastest mile in the state of Iowa my senior year.

And so I was using all of these tools, the sports psychology tools, you know, just to help me be a better runner. And then I got a full scholarship to run cross country and track. And it was a division one, which is the highest level of, you know, college athletics, but it was actually there, Garrett, where I kept on getting in my own way. And, you know, everyone was just as fast as I was. Everyone was a state champion. And, you know, there was,

I just really struggled lots of ups and downs. I struggled with my own mental health, compared myself to my team members all the time. And just as a result, I nearly wanted to quit my senior year. So I went from something I absolutely loved and was so passionate about to not loving it at all and wanting to give up. And what I realized…

you know, looking back is I did see a sports psychologist, but it was, it wasn’t as practical as what I, I try to teach now. And so I do think that this happened for me, not to me. Right. And I love, I love that quote by Byron Katie. what if everything happens for you, not to you. And I think that experience happened for me because it made me, I mean, the book is really practical and easy to read and lots of tools because that’s what I didn’t have when I was struggling. So that’s.

early why I still do what I do some 20 or plus years later is I’m like, how long ago was that really? But just because I was in my own way consistently and what I want to do is give people a toolkit to get out of their own way. So easy to get in our own head.

Garrett Salpeter (05:45.458)
That’s awesome. That really lands with me. I imagine it will land with a lot of people listening to this. And as a segue into how we can get out of our own way and how we can achieve these different desires that we have and have the mindset that supports that, can you define grit for us so that we’re speaking the same language as we proceed here?

Cindra Kamphoff (06:03.997)
Yeah.

Absolutely. So the book is called Beyond Grit and practice number one is grit. But then these other nine practices do support our grit. And sometimes people think grit means grind, right? That you keep pushing until you’re ready to fall apart. But grit is defined in the research in performance psychology is having passion and purpose for your very long -term goals. And there’s a whole host of research.

led by a woman named Angela Duckworth that shows just by having passion and perseverance towards your long -term goals, what that means, you know, the outcomes are tremendous. It’s been described as the number one predictor of our success because we’re less likely to burn out. We are more resilient. You know, it leads, it can lead to higher performance in lots of different ways. You’re more likely to graduate from college and high school. You know, Garrett, one of the things that I didn’t talk about in this book is we did a study.

a couple of years ago where we asked professional athletes how they developed their grit. And we wanted to see, you know, what did it take to get to the highest level of their profession? And then how did they grow their grit? And, you know, there are some things that you might expect that they would have said. For example, they said, you know, that their grit came from their mentors and their coaches and their parents and the support they had, the social support.

But there was one finding that I was completely surprised about, and they said their grit came from getting through the most difficult moment in their lives. So they said, for example, a seizing ending injury, which for a pro athlete is devastating, their own parents’ divorce, or one person was actually a cancer survivor, and she said it was her cancer that allowed her to develop her grit. And so grit comes from getting through really hard things. And when we can ask ourselves,

Cindra Kamphoff (08:01.469)
Like I just was talking about, you know, my own college experience. If we can ask ourselves things like, how is this happening for me, not to me? Or what’s, you know, how can I grow through this, not just get through it? Or what’s the opportunity in this difficulty? We’re able to, you know, really experience higher levels of energy and see the situation from a different lens. And so that’s one thing that supports our grit.

is to be able to see difficulties as challenges that we can overcome. It’s hard to do in the moment.

Garrett Salpeter (08:34.706)
It is, and it reminds me of one of the topics that really struck me in your book, which is this notion that how we think could be the single biggest influence on our life. That’s sort of the first domino that affects everything else downstream. In training, we talk about the foundation. We need to be able to move our body through all of our joint ranges of motion.

pain -free, we need to be able to produce energy to fuel performance, right? We need all these things before we worry about strength, about skill training, all that stuff. And this, I think for life, is sort of the foundation of the pyramid. The analogous thing is literally how we think. And as you just mentioned, a lot of times when difficult things happen, we might be thinking that, blaming others, we might be going into patterns of thinking just reflexively that aren’t necessarily helpful. So how do we…

How do we actually train ourselves to think more effectively?

Cindra Kamphoff (09:38.493)
Yes, great question. And I love what you said is like, can be likely the single most important thing about living our best life and towards high performance. And I would agree with that. It’s maybe the most important thing that you do, or at least one of the top, right? And so practice number three and Beyond Grit is called Mastering Your Thinking. And that’s all about, you know, how are you talking to yourself and how are you talking to yourself about the world? And…

One of the things I wish that I would have known when I was in college is this concept by Daniel Amon called ANTS or Automatic Negative Thoughts. And I think what’s powerful about that concept, it’s from his book called Change Your Brain, Change Your Life, is just that you and I don’t choose all of the thoughts that we have, that the majority of our thoughts are just automatic. And the reason that we have a lot of automatic negative thoughts, and people ask me a lot, like, why do I have negativity? And can I completely…

eliminate the negativity. I don’t think you can completely eliminate it, nor should you. Because sometimes that negativity can keep you safe and keep you out of trouble. And sometimes that negativity can serve us. And I would just say what’s most important is that you don’t believe everything that you think. Because our thoughts are automatic. And there’s lots of different kinds of automatic negative thoughts, the ones that

hit home for me most is like personalization or we think things that people do have personal meaning, right? But most of the time people aren’t even thinking about us. They’re just thinking about themselves. We might mind read, well, he or she probably thinks I’m stupid. We can have a lot of future -based thinking where, gosh, if I try that, that’s never going to work. And blaming is the most

red fire ant, that’s what I call it, because then we don’t take responsibility. And we do this all day long, right? And so the most important thing is to be aware of your automatic negative thoughts, and then you get to decide, you know, are you going to believe them? And you can likely choose a different thought. One of the tools I wrote in Beyond Grit for Business, Garrett, that you didn’t read yet, is called the Truth Meter. And it just means, like, it’s this little tool that I use.

Cindra Kamphoff (12:02.749)
a lot for my own self. And it means asking yourself three quick questions when you experience an automatic negative thought. And it’s like, number one, is this thought even true? And number two, is this thought serving me? Like, is it helping me step into my best self? And number three is, you know, what’s a different thought I could choose right now, like a more empowering thought. And when I do this in my coaching, what’s interesting is, you know, people will say, you know, they’ll be stuck on a thought or a belief.

For example, I was just working with an entrepreneur on Friday and she had the thought that there’s no way that I can build a business towards my vision. And when we took a step back and we were like, is that even true? Well, no, it’s not true. I actually have the skills. Is that serving me? No, it’s making me play small. And then I’m doubting myself. And so what’s a more empowering thought you could choose? And we even…

And sometimes I’ll even challenge the person and say, could you think of an even more empowering thought? You know, what’s an even more empowering thought? Just asking yourself that a couple times and you know, the power of that is you get out of your own way and you stop playing small and you start playing bigger with your life and what’s possible for you and your potential.

Garrett Salpeter (13:21.81)
I love that. That’s beautifully said. And you gave a little glimpse there into the process of coaching. You know, you’re talking about if someone comes to you and says they’re having this, these thoughts or these experiences, you’re giving them some coaching cues. And I also believe, you know, let me know if you agree, disagree, but you know, I believe that, you know, part of what we do is really coach ourselves. If we’re, if we’re mindful, of course you talk about mindfulness in the book too, but if we’re aware of what we’re doing, then first that’s the prerequisite.

if we’re aware of it, then we can have the opportunity to kind of coach ourselves, keep ourselves sort of on the rails or going in the direction that we wish to go. And so I think that self -coaching is important. And it also seems like, based on my experience, based on reading your book, it seems like some of it is just really repetition. Anytime you want to build a new habit, it just takes repetition. It seems like having repetition of these thought patterns of identifying the…

the automatic negative thoughts, identifying the ants and then choosing the alternative. And is it essentially a matter of if you do that consistently enough for a long enough period of time, that can sort of become your habitual way of thinking instead of sort of defaulting to the more negative? Is that a good way to frame it up?

Cindra Kamphoff (14:36.765)
Absolutely. You know, your thinking is your habits and meaning it’s habitual the way you’ve been thinking so far. And most of the time, Garrett, we aren’t even aware of the ways that we’re thinking or the ways that we’re getting in our own way. And, you know, because of neuroplasticity, we can change our brain. And so I have several clients that are overthinkers, and I would call myself a recovering overthinker.

because I used to overthink everything. And then I’m like, this is not helpful because overthinking to me is defined as knowing you’re passively and endlessly thinking about something. And usually I find that high achievers are overthinkers because they care a lot about their performance. They care about their work. They care about doing really, really well.

And what I love about Beyond Grit is after I speak people come up to me and say, you know, they’ll say, I really resonated with this part of your talk. And I’ll say, read chapter 33, you know, and so you can go like to the beginning to the end like you did, or you go to the places that you really need growth in. And there’s a chapter about overthinking. And so most of your thinking right now is what you’ve tolerated in yourself. And so.

you can grow your awareness of how you’re thinking and you can talk to yourself differently. And especially the statement behind, you know, whatever you put behind I am is it shapes your identity. And there’s a couple of years ago where I noticed myself saying things like, I’m such a procrastinator. And then I was like, what, where is this coming from? Because I am not a procrastinator, Garrett. Like I get a lot done in one day. And I think it was coming from.

that sometimes I don’t get all the things done that I want to. I have these really high expectations of myself, but I noticed that the more I believe that, then the more I would procrastinate on some things. So, you know, whatever you put behind I am shapes who you become. And that’s one of the most powerful ways to talk to yourself. I have a grit priming routine that people can actually get on this website called beyond grit slash morning. And it’s like a priming routine for the morning.

Cindra Kamphoff (16:54.173)
And it’s four steps. G stands for gratitude. And this just means for one minute in the morning, think about what you’re grateful for. R is remember your purpose and your why. Why are you here? I stands for intention. And this is who you want to show up today as. And then T stands for talk to yourself. And when I’m talking about this on stage, I’ll say.

I’m going to challenge you and I’m going to do this with everyone listening right now. I’m going to challenge you to write out at least 10, I have 30 statements I say to myself every morning and they’re the same. And I’ve thought about who do I want to become and then, I mean, not that I’m not enough already, right? Like not that you’re not enough already, but who do I want to become as I step into my future and what do I need to believe about myself? And then literally,

say those to yourself every single day. The cool thing about doing that, Garrett, is I started that practice about three years ago, and now I look at my list and most of those things are true, you know, because I’ve told myself them.

Garrett Salpeter (17:59.666)
I believe it. And there’s one other one interesting point that you said there that I just want to sort of call out or double down on. And that is that, you know, you said, Cindra, that people can be, you know, enough, you know, happy with with who they are now and also be striving at the same time to to improve. And it’s sort of like I can be grateful for the house I have the car I drive and I can also be working, you know, to move into a better one that’s going to have more space for my kids to play.

whatever, or I can be, you know, it’s possible. It’s not like I have to have disdain for the current situation in order to also be working to make it better. So it’s possible to do both. I think that’s one just important point I wanted to call out. Also before, of course, yeah, please.

Cindra Kamphoff (18:41.757)
Yeah.

Cindra Kamphoff (18:47.837)
Yeah, can I add something to that? Cause I think that’s really important. Yeah, because you know, your belief in yourself and your like this belief that you’re enough is really about your self -worth and your self -worth is what underlines your confidence and you know, your performance. And so just believing, hey, I am enough just the way I am, you know, is really important to building your own confidence. And we all need things that we’re pushing towards.

And I would say your goal should just be slightly out of your comfort zone. And just a little, you know, my goals every year, Garrett, I don’t reach them, you know, because they’re stretching me and it’s okay. I’m not a failure because I don’t reach them. But I think about who can I become as I’m trying to reach that goal. And that’s what we should be more invested in is like, okay, if you want a, you know, a different house or, you know, more opportunities for your kids, who can you become?

while reaching that goal. And that’s what we should be invested in, is who we can become towards our goals and less about did we reach that goal or not.

Garrett Salpeter (19:56.37)
That’s beautifully said there. And since you brought up the topic of confidence, let’s actually, let’s talk about that for a moment here. I want to come back to ants and positivity and negativity, but how do we cultivate confidence and even bigger picture, why is confidence important? And then drilling down, how can we cultivate and increase an appropriate sense of confidence?

Cindra Kamphoff (20:24.733)
Yeah, so great question there. I’m writing a book on confidence right now, so I could talk like for three days about confidence. But we don’t got that long. So, you know, what’s important about confidence and the way I define it is that it’s four things, that it’s a feeling. And what’s interesting, Garrett, is that we interpret our feelings.

Too much because our feelings of confidence can come and go so it’s a feeling It’s also a decision that we can make in the moment And it’s a skill we can develop at the heart of confidence is our belief in ourselves and sometimes we confuse the feeling of confidence that comes and goes With like this belief that we’re confident. So we just both did you know this a talk at genius network, which is so fun to

hear about your work and learn more about your work. And I did interview you for the listeners on my podcast called the high performance mindset. So you got to go check that out. Again, high performance mindset. And, you know, right before it, I was I was a little nervous. I don’t know if you were. But I mean, I’m a professional speaker. And I’m like, what the heck? Why am I nervous? You know, because I wanted to do really well and.

because I knew it was going to be videoed and I want to do really great in front of Joe Polish and all the things, right? Now I could have interpreted that feeling as, crap, I’m not ready or crap, you know, I’m going to freeze on stage. But instead I interpreted it as like, okay, anxiety just means I’m ready, you know, and that this is really important to me. So it’s about how we interpret those feelings of a lack of confidence. And usually people describe a lack of confidence really what they’re saying is,

they get nervous or they’re anxious or they feel pressure. And so I think what’s really important about confidence is it is connected to performance. So that’s why we want to grow our confidence. But sometimes people I work with, Garrett, like are nervous that if they grow their confidence, it means that they’re going to be arrogant. But think of confidence as more of like this inner belief in yourself. And, you know, it’s about looking inside and not being boastful or

Cindra Kamphoff (22:42.557)
sharing your accomplishments with others, it’s just this inner belief in self. And that’s something that you can cultivate. And I would say it should be a daily practice to grow our confidence. It does start with our own self -talk. And in my new confidence book, I’m talking about kind of this idea of your inner coach and your inner critic, right? Or maybe think about you’ve got this devil on your one side of your shoulder and you’re an angel. And I was listening to this interview,

with this downhill skier named Michaela Schifrin. And so she’s one of the best in the world. And Michaela on NBC was talking about, Julie Fowdy was asking Michaela, like, what do you think about when you’re on the top of the slope? And Michaela literally said, I have an angel on one shoulder and a devil on the other. And the angel is like, I got this, you’re gonna win. And then the devil’s like, you’re gonna die today. You think about a world -class skier thinking about dying.

And of course she thinks about dying sometimes. Those are just automatic negative thoughts. But before she goes down the slope, she has to clear her mind. And we can do the same, right? We both have this angel and this devil, but which one are you gonna feed? Which one are you gonna listen to? And which one are you gonna cultivate? And confidence is, it is a decision that we can make. And I think it’s really important to not over…

analyze, overthink the feelings of confidence that can come and go.

Garrett Salpeter (24:12.274)
That’s awesome. I think a lot of us probably understand, even if it’s a little, even if it’s, you know, difficult to put words to a little bit ambiguous. I think we understand the contrast between times we felt confident times we haven’t. And I think you said there about how to reframe anxiety or perceived lack of confidence is super valuable. And then also how to, how to really dial in strategies for cultivating confidence. So I really like what you said there.

Cindra Kamphoff (24:28.573)
Okay.

Garrett Salpeter (24:40.146)
On a related topics, this is all related to the ants, the automatic negative thoughts, that sort of being the thing that might sabotage confidence or decrease confidence. So also on that topic, can you talk about this golden ratio of three to one and the power, the benefits, the reason to care about having more positive thoughts than negative thoughts or even positive interactions than negative interactions with your team in the workplace in your…

marriage or other relationships, et cetera.

Cindra Kamphoff (25:11.933)
Yeah. So practice number three in Beyond Grit is called choose empowering emotions. And the three to one ratio is based on the work of Dr. Barbara Fredrickson. And over 30 years, she studied like the emotions that allow people to thrive. And she found the sweet spot of three to one. I’m going to call it empowering emotions versus disempowering. And the reason I’m using that is because…

Sometimes I think if we label our emotions as like negative or positive, it means that you should never have negative emotions, you know? But the ratio is three to one, and that allows people to thrive. The upward bound to that is 30 to one. So what that means is people still thrive when they’re experiencing 30 empowering emotions to one disempowering emotion, like throughout their day. Now the downward spiral is one to three. So that predicts depression and…

Stagnation is a one -to -one. Why that’s so powerful is we can claim our emotions and we can claim how we’re feeling. So many times we just kind of push that down and we don’t really even notice, what am I feeling right now? What’s the thought that led to that feeling? I like to use in my coaching just this little acronym called TFA.

And it means like our thoughts lead to our feelings and lead to our actions. And sometimes our feelings come before our thoughts, right? But like, okay, I’m feeling really a lot of pressure right now. What’s the thoughts that are leading to me feeling pressure right now? And then what’s the action that’s gonna lead if I feel, you know, continue to feel pressure right now? So the power of the three to one is that we can choose how we feel.

And we can choose to feel more empowered throughout our day. And the start of that is by choosing thoughts that are more powerful. But it also shows you that there is a place for negativity. You know, even if you look at research in sport performance, and there’s a line of research by a woman named Dr. Judy VanRalt, her research shows that positive self -talk does lead to higher performance.

Cindra Kamphoff (27:31.453)
But negative self -talk depends on the person. So, you know, meaning sometimes negative self -talk might help me. But what I find is this coaching a lot of people one -on -one, Garrett, is that when there’s a lot of negative self -talk, that’s what leads to less confidence and this downward spiral of not believing that we’re good enough or worthy enough or enough, you know? And so that’s where we have to really catch it.

Garrett Salpeter (28:04.882)
beautifully said, and that was something that really struck me. I had heard that Losada line of, which you also mentioned in there, describing the ratio of positive negative. And there’s a couple parts there that really spoke to me. I mean, the concept generally, if people are hearing this for the first time, hope it really lands. Many may be aware of it and learning that there’s an upper bound to it. I think that was really cool.

Cindra Kamphoff (28:26.749)
Mm -hmm.

Garrett Salpeter (28:33.65)
And just to sort of reiterate, yeah, it’s not that you never want to have any, you know, either quote unquote negative or disempowering emotions because, you know, if you’re looking over a railing on the top of a mountain, you know, having some fear is good because it prevents you from falling over. Or, you know, if you have some anger and it’s justified, you know, because there’s been something bad has been done to you, that can give you the energy that you need to…

to take positive actions, to do something constructive. So there’s good things that can come from that. But it also is important that in this, carrying forward this theme of cultivating confidence of how we coach ourselves and build habits in our thinking, like mastering this foundation of life, how we think, making sure that it’s positive. I think it’s cool because it takes that concept of, okay, how we think is very important and actually gives us some more objective metrics to.

almost be able to tell like, okay, are we doing this in a way that’s helping us or hindering us? So I like that, I like that topic a lot.

Cindra Kamphoff (29:37.661)
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and you know what’s interesting is that three to one ratio should just kind of be what guides us throughout our day. Like you could just ask yourself, was I in the three to one today? If not, right, I could choose more empowering emotions tomorrow. And every emotion is meant to be felt, even the hard ones. But what is really fascinating is that three to one ratio is thriving in ourselves.

But the ratio is even higher when we’re talking about high performing teams or flourishing marriages. And I think what you’re saying there is John Gottman’s work shows that flourishing marriages have a positivity percentage of 83%. Whereas marriages that end in divorce have a 42 % positivity percentage. And even high performing teams have an 85%. Lower performing teams have a 29%.

So when I’m working with athletic teams, we talk about like, how can we increase our positivity percentage? And there’s an acronym in the book that I call WAVE. And it’s like, wake up our actions, our voice and our energy. And that’s what we talk about with teams is, you know, yeah, like a slap on the back or butt, you know, depending on, it’s a football team that they do that all the time or a fist pump or a high five. What’d you say, Garrett?

Garrett Salpeter (31:00.722)
workplace just to be clear. I’m in the workplace just to be clear. We’re talking about…

Cindra Kamphoff (31:05.277)
No, yeah, not in the workplace. You’re right, you’re right. But you could give somebody a high five or you could give them a fist pump or just that voice of the V in voice like, Garrett, I so appreciate the work that you’re doing. And you are a great person to, you’re a great interviewer, by the way. Just like something like that really does help grow our own confidence. So absolutely.

Garrett Salpeter (31:34.738)
Yeah, that is a good, that’s a great point you just made there, sort of even in passing, is if you have, if you’re feeling down about yourself, sometimes doing something to uplift others is the thing that can help you get out of that funk too, because you realize like, wow, I have the capacity to impact others, to impact the world in a positive way. That actually helps cultivate a sense of confidence or positivity in one’s own self too. So I’m glad you mentioned that there too, there’s so much.

Good So many good good things you just said there. So I’m sure this is landing very well. I Would like to transition here to another Theme something that that is in what we’ve been talking about, although it’s not necessarily named Directly yet, or at least we haven’t necessarily named it directly out in this conversation when we when we talk about How we’re thinking

you know, during the day, during an activity, we’re actually focusing on a part of the process rather than focusing just on the outcome. And that’s also something that if we’re talking about how we can train ourselves to coach ourselves more effectively, how we can train ourselves to think more effectively, that’s another, you know, thinking about the process over the outcome is important there. But can you talk about that? I mean, that’s one of the themes that comes up in multiple areas of the book. Can you talk about…

Cindra Kamphoff (32:40.125)
Mm.

Garrett Salpeter (33:03.378)
why it’s important to focus more on the process over the outcome in sports, in business, in life. And I know there’s a lot there, so I’ll let you go in whatever direction you choose.

Cindra Kamphoff (33:12.285)
Yeah, I love talking about this because I don’t think people realize this concept of why it’s important to our day -to -day to focus on the process and when should we focus on the outcome. And so in the book I talk about, and this is kind of standard in sports psychology where we talk about process, performance, and outcome goals, right? And an outcome goal is actually something that you can’t fully control.

Like I’m writing this confidence book, Garrett, and I’d really like to get on some of the bestseller lists. And there’s some things out of my control on getting on the bestseller lists. I mean, I could sell, you know, blank number of books, but the New York Times bestseller list, for example, I can’t, it’s not just on the number of books I sell. And so an outcome goal can be really helpful to increase our motivation and to keep us going.

but it can also create a lot of anxiety and pressure because it’s a future based focus. And so I think of times where in college, where I was really stuck a lot, I would have a lot of outcome focused thinking. Like, you know, I really want to win this race this weekend, or I want to get in the top, you know, 20. Well, I can’t really fully control that because I can’t control who else I’m racing against and what times that they run.

And then I would beat myself up and be really harsh and critical of myself when I didn’t reach that outcome goal, when it wasn’t actually anything I could control. And so we want to stay focused more on performance and process goals day to day. Again, the outcome goal could get you out of bed in the morning, right? Like I’m thinking about when I’m running marathons, it’s like, okay, I want this time in the marathon. I better get up. So it gives me motivated.

But we want to stay focused more on the day to day and the way to kind of think about your process is you could think about, well, what is an outcome goal you’re really reaching towards? Maybe that’s a certain amount of yearly income that you want to make as an entrepreneur, or maybe it’s a number of sales, a sales target or something like that. And then what’s the small steps you need to take every day? And that’s what we need to stay focused on. There’s some…

Cindra Kamphoff (35:32.573)
real estate professionals and financial planners that I coach Garrett. And sometimes they get so focused on the outcome. And I haven’t met my monthly target. And it creates so much anxiety and pressure that they just spin. And then they don’t even make progress. So we want to stay focused more on the process because that’s what leads to flow. And focusing on the outcome actually

disrupts our ability to get into flow. And flow just means that we’re fully in the moment, doing something absorbed in the moment, like time flies and time passes by really quickly because we’re just loving what we’re doing.

Garrett Salpeter (36:11.858)
And on that topic of flow, you mentioned in the book a little bit of a recipe for finding flow. If you’re doing something that’s too easy, you won’t get there. If you’re doing something that’s too challenging, you won’t be able to get there either. So what’s that sweet spot in terms of how to find flow?

Cindra Kamphoff (36:29.533)
Absolutely. And so, you know, there’s a great book by Mihaly Cech, he’s the first psychologist to coin this term flow and his book is called Flow.

Garrett Salpeter (36:40.338)
You’re the first person I heard say his name correctly.

Cindra Kamphoff (36:43.165)
I think I said it correctly. I practiced it a few times before, but I teach at a university right now. I’m on sabbatical Garrett. And so like I make the students learn how to say his name because it’s really hard. But there are these attributes of flow that are really helpful just to acknowledge. And your mind.

Garrett Salpeter (36:45.714)
I don’t know.

Cindra Kamphoff (37:10.621)
You have to be in the present moment and focused on the process to experience flow. And in my book, Beyond Grit for Business, I talk about like the three F’s to not experiencing flow. And one is focusing on the outcome. The other is forcing flow. And I was just talking about this on the radio this morning. The last one is focusing on yourself.

And it gets to what you were just saying, because one of the best ways to get out of your head is to focus on serving and giving and not getting in here where your overthinking are really self -critical. And that’s one of the things that can disrupt flow. Like, for example, if I go on stage and I’m thinking about what other people are going to think about me, if they’re going to like my message, all of a sudden I just got in my head. And it’s way better if I’m in my heart and thinking about the people and serving and giving.

and less about me being and saying things perfect or not saying or or blah blah blah. Things like that.

Garrett Salpeter (38:13.938)
Yeah. And on that topic of, you know, of speaking, it’s about, you know, being there for the audience, focusing more on that, you know, it also brings back to, you know, like we were talking about confidence. We also talked about speaking and you mentioned, you know, you and I had both given talks together at this event and everything. And, that was serendipitous and bringing us together for, you know, for these podcasts too. And, one of the, one of the.

One of the things that really stands out to me about that talk, about my experience of that talk is this notion that, you know, we don’t rise to the level of our hopes and dreams. We fall to the level of our preparation. And so I feel, I’m proud to say I feel good about how I did with, did that talk. And it’s because I got coaching and it’s because I practiced. And the first time I tried doing that talk just by myself was nowhere near as good as it was when I got up on stage because I had gotten coaching and I had practiced it.

Cindra Kamphoff (38:53.309)
Hmm.

Garrett Salpeter (39:10.386)
perhaps 15 times until it was the same the last three or four times in a row. So, you know, I think that that is part of what gave me the confidence. So when you talk about the formula for confidence, some of it is looking backwards instead of forwards, looking back at your successes and your preparation and stuff like that too. So I don’t know if there’s anything more to add there, but since the talk came up, I wanted to at least share that.

Cindra Kamphoff (39:33.693)
Yeah. Yeah. And so if you look at the research on self -efficacy, and so self -efficacy is different than confidence because self -efficacy is like our confidence in a specific task. So like you might have high self -efficacy, you know, to interview people on the podcast, but maybe your self -efficacy and running a marathon isn’t quite as high right now. Right. And so,

What the research shows on self -efficacy is, and so it is related to our confidence, is preparation is one of the most powerful ways to build our self -efficacy. And…

Garrett Salpeter (40:10.546)
So just so self -efficacy is sort of like a subcategory of like a more specific subcategory, whereas confidence is sort of overarching and more general.

Cindra Kamphoff (40:19.261)
Yeah, you could say it that way. Mm -hmm, yep, yeah. But preparation, mastery, and putting in the hours does build confidence because, you know, and I think about, there was a marathon I was running and for a while I was training like 90 miles in one week. So I was like, you know, super wanting to.

especially after my own experience in college, I just wanted to see what I could do with in the marathon now that I had all these mindset tools that I was using for myself. And I was registered for the Omaha Marathon and I felt all this anxiety a couple of weeks before the race. Like, was I really ready? And I almost stopped and didn’t even run the race. And I had a buddy who knew all the preparation that I put into this race. And he was like, Cindra ,

count up how many miles that you ran for this race. And it was something like 1400 miles for this one race that was 26 .2 miles. And what I did was I wrote that number on my hand during the race. And so every kind of motion I made, I could see it. And whenever I was doubting myself, it was like, I’ve ran 1400 miles for this race.

I can run the next mile, right? And so sometimes we have to take a step back. And I work with a lot of Olympic athletes and sometimes they get in their head and they don’t, you know, they’re again, they’re comparing themselves. They’re looking at other people and how well they’re performing. And there’s an Olympic athlete I worked with for Tokyo that we literally, she made a confidence board and she put up a picture of all of her past successes. And it was like, you know, she put it in her kitchen. So every day she’d walk by and she’d say,

Yeah, look at all the things I have done. And we forget that, right? We don’t really look at what we don’t celebrate our wins instead, especially if you’re high achiever, it’s like onto the next.

Garrett Salpeter (42:27.794)
Yeah, that’s great. That notion that you and I talked about also, the gap and the gain, looking, we can focus on the gap between where we are and where we want to be looking forward, or we can look back and see the gain or the progress that we’ve made so far. And I like that. I like that concept. This is interesting too. This is something that I hadn’t necessarily planned to get into this, you know, the difference between self -efficacy and confidence. And it brought up an interesting topic for me as I was listening to you.

Cindra Kamphoff (42:33.981)
Yes.

Garrett Salpeter (42:57.17)
My question is to what degree does confidence in one area spill over to another? Because we talk about self -efficacy can be in these specific silos, whereas confidence is more general. And I think it’s healthy if I say, okay, I can take the confidence that I gained from proving to myself that I can prepare for this talk, and I can take that as sort of a growth mindset, sort of as, of course, you talked about in the book as well, using the growth mindset to say, if I want to put that same level of effort and intention,

into another area, I can be successful there too. But it seems like there’s also some danger if I say, well, I did good at speaking here, so I would be a great surgeon, or I would be a great car mechanic, or something like that too. So I don’t know if there’s anything to say there other than I’m kind of curious how you think about that topic of how relating self -efficacy and confidence and how much success in one area can or should.

or in a helpful way will influence more broadly our sense of confidence.

Cindra Kamphoff (43:59.101)
Yeah, absolutely. And so I think it’s helpful to take a step back and celebrate your wins and think about what you have accomplished. And it can impact other areas. For example, I’m trying to think of like example to give you of myself. Sometimes even as I’m writing a book, I’ve written two books and a workbook and I can even get in my head and saying, like,

am I ready for this or do I know what I’m doing? It’s like, I have to take a step back and say, no, I have written several books and I can make an impact with this book as well. I think what’s important is for people to take a step back and say, well, what areas in my life can I grow my confidence in and which ones am I already confident in? And also you can think,

you know, that, hey, my ability to write this book also means all the stuff I’ve displayed writing this book, it means I can stick with things, I can follow through. You know, the person I am writing this book can also help me as I step into, you know, this other area I want to grow confidence in. Like, that’s who I am, right? And so those attributes that allowed me to accomplish one thing can also help me accomplish the next thing.

Garrett Salpeter (45:24.754)
I like that. That’s great. I’m glad we took a little detour there, because I think that was a really good way to frame up that topic. Also, related to confidence, to belief in ourself, is how we handle failure. And so, without giving any more foreshadowing than that, I would like to ask you to tell the story of the time you appeared in ESPN.

Cindra Kamphoff (45:44.829)
Yes.

Garrett Salpeter (45:53.906)
for teaching Adam Thielen how to flush a toilet. Adam Thielen, by the way, is a star receiver for the Minnesota Vikings. Cindra  did work with him in sports psychology when he’s at the college where she teaches and works and then continued to work with him at the Minnesota Vikings, of course also works with them just for reference there. But can you tell that story and then touch on how it’s related to dealing with failure as well?

Cindra Kamphoff (46:21.021)
Yeah, absolutely. And so practice number nine in Beyond Grit is live and let go. And of the 10 practices in Beyond Grit, this is the most difficult one because we make meaning based on the past, right? So it’s hard to move on quickly when you experience a disappointment or a failure or a setback. And so I have a tool called Learn Burn Return that I talk about in Beyond Grit that is my favorite tool because…

everybody who’s listening can apply the tool. And so I taught Adam this tool, learn burn return. And so what this tool means is the first step after making a mistake or experiencing a disappointment, you ask yourself, what did I learn? And you want to use the prompt next time I will. Cause that’s like the sweet spot, right? The great words instead of I wish I could have, or I should have, or I, you know, no reason to beat yourself up.

Next time I will. And then we want to choose a burn phrase or action. That’s the second step, such as flush it. I’ll tell you the story in a second about flush it or burn it or let it go or shake it off, something like that. And then we want to return. We want to build our confidence back up. Most people don’t do that. They stick. They stay in the learn, learn, learn, learn, learn phase, like overthinking it. And we don’t naturally build ourselves up after we make a mistake. And so.

I teach most of the people that I work with one -on -one, this tool. And a couple of years ago, the Vikings were playing the Saints and it was a playoff game. And Adam fumbled the ball really early on in the game. Okay. So not, not a good look. That’s probably the worst kind of mistake that you could make in a playoff game. The Saints get the ball. And after the play, he went over to the sidelines and he made this action. Right. And if you’re just listening on the podcast, it was like,

He put his hand kind of near his, you know, kind of by his face. And then he just did this like little turn down to his chest, right? That’s like a lever turn. And, you know, think about the pressure of a professional athlete. You know, in this game, you have 38 million people watching the game, 73 ,000 people watching it live. And then on the Jumbotron, the mistake is shown over and over again.

Cindra Kamphoff (48:44.189)
You know, what would you do if you were in that situation? And so Adam went over, made this action. Now the next drive, he was right back in that fast, right? Meaning he taught himself to have a short -term memory of his mistakes, but a long -term memory of his successes. And because he had this next play mentality, right? Moving on from the last play, the most important play is the play you’re in.

He was able to catch this 43 yard catch over his head. It was absolutely gorgeous. And he sets the Vikings up to win the game with the next play is a touchdown. And so afterwards, the CSPN reporter went up to Courtney, or Courtney, the ESPN reporter went up to Adam and said, Adam, what was this action? And he said, well, I was pretending to flush a toilet. So that was his burn phrase.

or action. And so the next day, the headline in ESPN went something like, mental coach taught Vikings Adam Thielen to flush away his mistakes. And I’m like, that’s how I get headlined in ESPN, flushing a toilet. Come on.

Garrett Salpeter (49:53.874)
Well, you made it, you made it in the ESPN and it was, it was well -deserved. And if you do pick up a copy of Beyond Great, you’ll see Adam Thielen wrote the forward to the book and had wonderful things to say about how your coaching has helped him numerous ways in his career. And, you know, it’s been a tremendous boost there. And I, I do want to talk about what coaching looks like, but before we get there, I think we probably have time to cover.

at least one more topic. I might try to squeeze in a second too, but one of these other sort of underlying themes that really influences our lives, how we think, of course, we’ve covered. I’m sure everyone by now understands how important that is. Another one that you talk about in the book that people likely talk about and think about at different times, but is this notion of purpose.

Simon Sinek has this wonderful TED Talk about start with why. And you have some really wonderful things to say in your book about purpose. And I want to ask you, why is it important to find our purpose or to have a sense of purpose and then also drill down into how we can cultivate that sense of purpose in order to achieve whatever benefits are associated with it.

Cindra Kamphoff (51:14.461)
Yeah, this is such an important topic. So I’m glad we didn’t end without talking about it. And so our purpose is what drives our grit. And so it drives where we’re going and it drives our future and it drives our goals. And what the research shows about why we need to understand our purpose is it is essential for our life satisfaction and our wellbeing and our health.

And there’s even some research to show that we live up to seven to 10 years longer when we understand our purpose. And what’s really cool, Garrett, is that our purpose is what makes us unique. You know, no one else has the same mix of experiences or dreams or gifts as you do, right? No one else can offer the world what Garrett can, the way that Garrett can do it. Just like no one else can offer what you can done in the way that you can.

And I think because comparison and that’s one of the traps to our own confidence is when we compare ourselves. And we say, well, Garrett’s so much more successful than I am, right? He’s got that newbie or syndrome, blah, blah, blah. But it’s like, hey, let’s take a step back and understand our uniqueness. And so in the book, I have a way that you can write your purpose statement. And it’s hard for people. When I do two hours,

or longer workshop, I always have people write their purpose statement and sometimes people spin on it. And because it feels like it’s so big and it should be like this download from the universe or something. But I would say start with writing what you think your purpose statement is, put it on a sticky note on your mirror or somewhere you can see it, just keep checking in on it. What I learned, I was at the Boston Marathon bombing.

in 2013. And it was that moment where I was just a block away from the bomb and I just got done running the marathon. And it was interesting because as I made sense of what was happening, I went actually to my purpose. Like I thought maybe it was going to be the last day of my life, but I kept on, you know, asking myself like, why am I here and what difference do I make and why do I do what I do? And it was actually

Cindra Kamphoff (53:36.445)
that day that helped me wake me up to my own purpose. And so then I started reading all about how do you help people find their purpose? How do I find my purpose? And think of purpose is like pulling back the layers of an onion. It takes reflection, thinking about why is it you do what you do. And I think it’s important. I love what the work Simon Sinek has done. And I would just say like, we shouldn’t just start with our why, we should really own it.

and use our purpose to inform our direction in our lives. And so there’s some good resources in the book about how to do that.

Garrett Salpeter (54:14.674)
Yeah, there are, I’ll vouch for that. Some good sort of prompts or questions, exercises you can use to get clear on that. And it was insightful for me to go through some of those exercises and perhaps share the results on a future podcast as well. But as we come to the end here, I do also want to ask you, we talk a lot about, within New Fit Nation on this podcast, talk a lot about neuroscience. We talk about…

applying principles of neuroscience into daily practice in physical therapy where people are usually a lot more focused on the hardware of the body. And we’re encouraging people to focus on the software because we’ve seen that’s where many of these wonderful breakthroughs can come from. So there, you know, in your book, you talk about strategies that involve, you know, breathing to help people get in a state, you know, a kind of healthier state when there’s anxiety. And that’s certainly one way to balance the autonomic nervous system. Are there any other things that, that you think about or teach about that sort of?

directly relate neuroscience and performance, sort of broad open ended. I’m wondering if you have any thoughts there.

Cindra Kamphoff (55:22.461)
Ooh, such a great question. My brain’s going to like, ooh, what can I share? What can I share?

Cindra Kamphoff (55:33.469)
So I think about a tool in the pressure chapter called pop the pressure. And our default is more of the survival mode. And I think about you do a great job in your book kind of describing our default of just like what our brain’s real purpose is to keep us safe and it’s for survival. And so the pop the pressure is where you can…

really take control of your response and it’s pop the pressure stands for P is taking a few power breaths and that’s a great way to kind of slow your body’s reaction down this idea of like we want to respond instead of react right and that our Automatic survival reaction is with heightened anxiety and heightened pressure Just take a few power breaths Maybe even count with that breath because your mind can’t think about two things at once right can’t think about counting

And it can’t think about, you know, what’s causing you the anxiety or pressure. O stands for opportunity. And that just means like, okay, what’s possible right here. And just kind of refocus your mind on what you’re doing and what’s possible in the present. And then P stands for process. It comes back to like taking just small steps. And so many times we can just be full of anxiety and pressure again. Sometimes that serves us because that keeps us safe.

in that survival mode, but lots of times it leads to like not playing big and playing small instead. So, and then the other thing I would just say is all of these things are habits that once you practice, you can keep getting better at. And mindset training is like a practice and the more you do it, right? You strengthen those new neural pathways. And so you think differently over time, but you got to stick with it. That’s why mental training is a daily practice.

Garrett Salpeter (57:30.45)
Yeah, I love it. I love it and completely agree. So if, as we wind down here, if anyone listening is thinking, gosh, I like this, I want more of this, can you describe what…

what coaching looks like, whether it’s someone who is an entrepreneur listening and owns a practice or another business and would like some one -on -one coaching, or perhaps is thinking, wow, what if we could do a workshop covering these materials with our team? What are some of the things that you offer through your business so people can get a sense of how they might even be able to sort of engage further with some of this material?

Cindra Kamphoff (58:12.317)
Yeah, that’s awesome. Thank you for asking Garrett. So I’m a speaker and trainer. So what that means is I deliver keynote speeches to lots of different associations and corporations and do trainings too. So that might be offering a training, like a two hour training or half day training or full day training for your team on these 10 practices. But I do want to offer anybody who’s listening a free coaching session, complimentary, okay, with.

myself or one of my team members at Mentally Strong Institute. And so you can head over to freementalbreakthroughcall .com. Can I say it again? freementalbreakthroughcall .com. And it’ll just ask your name and contact information. What would you like to work on? And we’ll introduce you to coaching. Cause I think a lot of people don’t necessarily know what it is. And what I know, Garrett, I’ve had a same coach for eight years now.

And what she’s helped me do is get to my goals quicker and get out of my own way. And that’s ultimately what we do is we help people grow their confidence and increase their influence and get to their goals quicker. And we work with high achievers. So people who want to just be their best more often, we work with athletes, entrepreneurs, people in the health profession, doctors, lawyers, right? Like all the above, like high achievers, people who want to be their best. And the thing about coaching is it’s confidential.

And I think of it as both reactive and proactive, meaning we take a step back and we say, how do you want to grow? You know, what are you, what are you striving for? So what are your goals? What’s your purpose? Some of that is proactive. Like how do you be the best you that you can be? And it’s also reactive. And so many times leadership can be really lonely and we don’t have really people to talk to that can help you problem solve and figure out what you want to do in your business or what’s best for you. So that’s what’s

what I mean by reactive is what’s going on with you right now that you need more clarity around. And so I think it’s one of the best things I’ve done for my own career and why I coach high achievers now and lead a team of high achievers that are coaches working with high achievers.

Garrett Salpeter (01:00:22.482)
That’s it.

Garrett Salpeter (01:00:27.346)
That’s awesome. If you hear me typing, it’s because I’m trying to go to that URL right now too. So I will definitely just second that and talk about how I’ve gotten coaching in different areas of my life. And some people get a personal trainer to help them achieve their fitness goals faster. I talk about just getting a speaking coach who would actually help me. I’ve given a lot of talks and yet I learned some things.

that are gonna make me a much more effective speaker. I was using slides in very ineffective ways. Some of the ways that I was making introductions and things like that weren’t as engaging as they could be. There were just some things that were just so helpful to me. And then, you know, gotten coaching on business, leadership coaching, things like, it’s just there’s so much marriage counseling. I mean, there’s so many different ways that it’s helped.

me and it’s been great. So I will definitely speak about the value of coaching and I am literally going to try this myself. I’m so excited about this work that you’re doing. So I’m going to be going to that URL next. Can you read that one more time too?

Cindra Kamphoff (01:01:38.333)
I can’t wait. Yeah, I can’t wait to do that coaching session with you, Garrett.

Cindra Kamphoff (01:01:47.421)
Yes, free mental breakthrough call .com and just say, Hey, I heard syndrome on Garrett’s podcast because that will help us connect to you with the right coach for you. But we have incredible coaches that will help you get clarity on whatever it is. Right. And, and like, what I think is helpful about coaching Garrett is there doesn’t need to be anything wrong with you. You know, that’s not what coaching is. It’s about helping you step into the best.

you that you can be and removing some of those inner limits or inner barriers. And that’s what I think is really important. It’s continuing to grow just like an athlete, right? Athletes have coaches. And I love what you said earlier that you have your own inner coach. And it’s like, are you really using that inner coach the best that you can to accomplish your own goals?

Garrett Salpeter (01:02:37.906)
Yes, absolutely, absolutely. So first of all, thank you so much for making that offer to our community. I’ll tell you, I heard her speak on stage in front of 100 something very influential people and she didn’t even make that offer there. So I’m honored that you did that for Newfoundland Nation here. And you know.

Cindra Kamphoff (01:02:57.341)
I did? You’re right. I should have.

Garrett Salpeter (01:03:05.714)
you know, anyone who’s interested, I hope you will take her up on that offer. Cause I think there’s going to be a ton of value there. I’ll let you know my own experience cause I’m going to do it. are there any other, you mentioned, you know, that website, free mental breakthrough call .com. You mentioned your website for the book beyond grit .com. so we’ve got those two so far, any other places in terms of website URLs or social media where it’s best to keep up with you? I know I follow you on Instagram, but, we’re, we’re the best places to keep up with.

Cindra Kamphoff (01:03:34.941)
Yeah. So you can, if you want to learn more about anything that I’ve talked about today, you can also go to Dr. Cindra . So D -R -C -I -N -D -R -A, pretty easy, Dr. Cindra . And then I spend more time on Instagram, LinkedIn, kind of the social media platforms that I use. And I’m always trying to, you know, just deliver good value over there.

Garrett Salpeter (01:03:47.57)
Okay.

Garrett Salpeter (01:03:57.97)
And that website is just, it’s drCindra  .com, right?

Cindra Kamphoff (01:04:01.117)
DrCindra .com, you bet.

Garrett Salpeter (01:04:03.282)
Awesome, very good. Very good, well thank you so much, Cindra . It’s been an absolute pleasure and thank you everybody for tuning into this episode of the Undercurrent Podcast. Please leave in the comments on social media your favorite takeaway. I’d love to hear what really lands with you and if you’re anything like me, there’ll be a lot. You’ll have a lot of notes, a lot of thoughts going. You’ll probably feel on fire with excitement here based on what’s possible. And thank you again, Cindra .

and we will see you everybody on the next episode of the Undercurrent Podcast.